Nice Public Comment on the record about catch shares

[Ernest]

In valuing the catch shares/IFQ, the economic multipliers (as that term is normally used) don't enter into the calculation.

What does enhance the value of the catch shares/IFQ's is the ability of some operators to use snapper to cover fixed or variable costs that would be incurred in other fishing operations. As in, red snapper is an additional revenue source that covers some portion of the costs that the operator incurs fishing for AJ's or beeliners or grouper or kings or whatever.

[Aces Full]

Originally Posted by Ernest

In valuing the catch shares/IFQ, the economic multipliers (as that term is normally used) don't enter into the calculation.

What does enhance the value of the catch shares/IFQ's is the ability of some operators to use snapper to cover fixed or variable costs that would be incurred in other fishing operations. As in, red snapper is an additional revenue source that covers some portion of the costs that the operator incurs fishing for AJ's or beeliners or grouper or kings or whatever.

It is completely moronic to assert that the value of a share of red snapper can be summed up solely as an additional revenue source. Completely stupid!!! Consider your posting privileges revoked!!!

[Swells]

Originally Posted by Aces Full

It is completely moronic to assert that the value of a share of red snapper can be summed up solely as an additional revenue source. Completely stupid!!! Consider your posting privileges revoked!!!

I have to agree that for many, such as the commercial and headboat operators, as well as many recreational fishermen, the red snapper is king of the Gulf of Mexico in terms of a targeted species. All others are peripheral, and no diss to he few who target tuna, swords, tiles, mackerel, and big uglies. The red snapper is "chicken of the sea."

Perhaps Ernest had some kind of point, and we already agreed that "economic multipliers" really don't count when it comes down to permitting and the possibility of recreational catch shares - which I think is where SOS got hosed in their policy and the position is becoming increasingly unpopular. The charter boys and headboats simply want dependability, which I can understand, but you don't have to have sector separation + catch share permits to do that. Us Texans are smarter than that silliness emanating from Washington D.C. and Florida.

[bob zales, II]

well said!!!
By the way, where are the TX sosers, they haven't replied to any post for a couple days. Are they in WY?

[Ernest]

You are misunderstanding the terms, Aces. We were talking about the valuation of catch shares for a transfer between private parties or for return to investors. Not the value of red snapper to the economy or the economic impact of a fishery.

Further, I never said solely. Merely, that it was not about multipliers, and its role as a secondary or additional income source enhances its value, relative to its value as a stand alone endeavor or business operation.

[Aces Full]

I know exactly what you are talking about Ernest and did not misunderstand terms. I was referring to what you were trying to falsely plant in peoples minds in lieu of what you actually said. You do a good job at trying to confuse people, but not that good. Snapper are worth more than you are trying to lead people to believe.

You should really think about running for some political office. You have the ability to spew out a lot of words without saying anything down down to a science!

Either way, the original discussion is about the SOS'ers who have come on this board and either lied or were falsely misled. They should be man enough to come out and admit they were duped to benefit their fellow taxi drivers or they should admit they were caught in their lie.

TO SAY NOTHING LEADS US TO BELIEVE YOU ARE A LYING COWARD!!!

Mike Jennings of Cowboy Charters???

Scott Hickman of Circle H Outfitters???

[Swells]

Not taking sided here, but yes the per-pound economics does apply here:

• Commercial red snapper is running somewhere about 5 bucks a pound, haven't checked it lately
• Recreational red snapper is worth ZERO in direct cash because you can't sell it.

This is a major problem in making inter-sector trades, such as to apply a commercial boat permit to a six-pack charter vessel. I guess it could be done, but what we have all seen with catch shares is that less people catch more fish.

The NMFS and EDF love this, since you're removing boats from the fleet, making it easier to keep track of the poundage with fewer players who can be manipulated easier.

In short, Ernest exposed a major reason why sector separation (SOS) with catch shares would screw the entire charter industry, except perhaps some wealthy headboat operators in the Alabama-Panhandle Florida area who have some money to throw around.

In conclusion:

• Be careful what you ask for
• The government is here to "help" you

[bob zales, II]

Also, once the new NOAA/NMFS Catch Share Policy is released, which may be any day now, look for provisions to charge royalties for each share provided to you. In the past, in the commercial fishery in the Gulf the MSA only allows up to 3% of the exvessel price to be collected, nothing near what it cost to administer the program. These costs could be increased under the new catch share policy and certainly will be included in any new catch share program created.

So, as was just stated, be careful what you ask for!!!

[Swells]

Well Bob I don't understand these fishermen, who are traditionally a conservative bunch, wanting more government and more fees and more socialism, not to mention trying to hog a public resource at the expense of us small-timers. It kind of freaks me out. If I were in the charter game, I'd want less government control and if the limits are two red snapper over 16 inches so be it, hope for better limits in the future, and have as little paperwork and electronic surveillance as possible. I mean are these guys Obama lovers or what? I'll fall on a grenade to save the group but this seems a little extreme here ...
sammie

[MikeWilson]

The Sector Separation plan was an EDF plan to start with. EDF just found a few gulf charter captains to put a public fishing face on it
so that it looks good to anyone from the outside looking into it. Kinda of like dressing up a whore so you can take her to church.