2 Cool Fishing Forum banner

Commercial Oyster Boats in East Matagorda

26K views 155 replies 41 participants last post by  karstopo 
#1 ·
I fished East Matagorda over the weekend and witnessed dozens of Oyster boats in the bay. These guys were ganged up on top of all the beds on the West end of the bay. At the end of the day I saw boats packed to the top with sacks of oysters. I doubt there will be much left once they are done. I heard state congressman Bonnen has a target on them after what these jackasses did to Christmas Bay. The beds were totally destroyed. I am not sure those guys give a flip about the resource.
 
#54 · (Edited)
Aren't a fair amount of the areas that are "closed" due to pollution? Some of those closures get lifted from time to time and some don't I would assume.

Also, although a license buy back program might help TPWD with the overall numbers of boats they have to keep up, I don't see where it does anything to reduce pressure on the resource. If x pounds of oysters are going to be harvested, it doesn't matter if 200 boats are doing it or 100 boats.
 
#55 ·
Aren't a fair amount of the areas that are "closed" due to pollution? Some of those closures get lifted from time to time and some don't I would assume.

Also, although a license buy back program might help TPWD with the overall numbers of boats they have to keep up, I don't see where it does anything to reduce pressure on the resource. If x pounds of oysters are going to be harvested, it doesn't matter if 200 boats are doing it or 100 boats.
There are approved areas, restricted areas and prohibited areas. The approved areas can be open and closed due to runoff from rains, red tides etc. This year I would estimate 90+ % of the total area containing oysters has been closed for one reason or another.

The limit is currently 40 sacks per boat per day. TPWD claims there are about 100 boats currently actively working. So that is a maximum of 4000 sacks a day can be taken. If you retire a license that number goes down to 3960, 3920, 3880 etc... So reduction of the fleet is probably the best way to achieve long term sustainability. It has worked great for the shrimp, crab and fin fish industries.

No need to re-invent the wheel. A couple of things that we need to think about as we move forward. Don't quote me on the exact number but there are approximately 400 total licenses out there and TPWD estimates that about 100 or 25% of them are currently working. Rough figures.

The boat price is currently 40.00 to 50.00 per sack. Any regulation passed that increases the cost to harvest oysters will undoubtably be passed on down to the consumer and cause the price to go up. Law of supply and demand.

Oystering commercially is extremely hard work, its not for the meek. Thats why only 100 out of 400 total licenses are actually working. If the price increases from 40.00 to 80.00 oystering becomes much more profitable even at say 10 sacks a day. What you will have is more money being made and more licenses actually being worked.

So instead of 100 licenses working we may jump up to 200 or 300. That raises the "potential" total number of oyster sacks taken from our bays daily from 4,000 to 8,000 or heaven forbid even 12,000. The exact opposite effect of what we should be trying to do.

Thats why I am fervently opposing any additional regulations that will artificially drive up the price. Lower the limits and oysters go up, more boats go to work and the pressure on the resource increases. In addition the cost to buy back the license shoots up making it harder to retire them.

There has already been a fundamental change in the way we oyster. Lower limits mean the big slower boats with a limited range have become obsolete. They have been replaced by much smaller, very fast skiffs with a huge range.

At 20.00 - 30.00 a sack cooning oysters was just not very feasible for all but the very young and very hardy. At 40.00 - 50.00 a guy "cooning" ten sacks can make pretty decent money. Thats why for the first time that I know of in our history Christmas Bay had more than a couple of oyster fishermen working it. The law of unintended consequences keeps biting the industry and it's "managers".
 
#64 · (Edited)
Your example of how they pull their dredges is spot on but what you fail to point out is once that boat is done that bed doesn't get marked and left alone, the next day another boat will hit it and later that day a 3rd boat will hit, the next day another boat or two and on and on till they either figure out their burning more fuel than it's worth or the area is shut down by TPWD. There were 50+ plus boats in St Charles every day in between the public ramp and the mouth into Aransas for over 2 weeks, there is no way that every square inch of shell of that area didn't have a dredge pulled over it more than once, Coastal Fisheries finally got out there to sample and the abundance of undersized was through the roof and way past the cut off limit and 3 days later (which is required by law so it can be published) it was closed. Everyone of those boats know how many undersized oysters and other "stuff" (dead shell, rock, etc) they can put in a sack and get away with it, buyers are buying sacks and given the current market they are just glad to get them and write off all the other "stuff" their buying as the cost of doing bushiness right now. I can't attest to about up north but myself and several old timers in the Aransas Bay area will tell you that without a doubt the fleet has ground reefs that have been around for ever down to nothing in the last 10 years.
 
#65 · (Edited)
Not exactly accurate. Every buyer I know is extremely stringent on what they buy. You throw too much shell or small oysters and you get run off. Period the end.

There are two markets for oysters. The half shell and the "meat" market or shucked. Both depend on yields. Too much shell/small oysters and the yield drops. That cuts way into profits.

So the industry is pretty self policing in that category and always has been. It boils down to profits. I have been run off of reef by my buyers simply because the oysters were water bags and did not yield. In any good business transaction both sides walk away happy and I can assure you if a boat throws "trash" he will be looking for another buyer.

I'm not going to tell you that certain reefs have not been overfished because they have. It's what happens when you put more and more boats into less and less area. I will also say that there are reefs in every bay system that have been worked and worked year after year for over 100 years and still produce and will continue to do so for generations to come if we get this management program right.

So we need to avoid knee-jerk reactions like closing Christmas Bay or any other bay. We need to buy back licenses and spread out the remaining boats into as many bay systems as possible. What is happening now is TPWD is forcing more and more boats into less and less area and it becomes overfished.
 
#71 ·
I got to admit. For the most part I am impressed with the quality of the conversation. Speaking from experience I know that for whatever reason Christmas Bay oysters bounce back extremely fast. I was there one year in November and there were millions of 3" oysters. Went back in March and there were nice fat 4" oysters everywhere. Personally I think it is the fact that the tide movements are so strong and the reef so shallow they are more resistant to the oyster conchs and drills. On a normal low the reef is exposed and the slower moving conchs and drills can't get in and out fast enough to get them.

The same can be said for West Galveston Bay "Bear Claw" oysters. They grow extremely fast.

Three or four times in my life I have seen Christmas Bay and East Matagorda Bay literally void of living oysters only to bounce back with a "Super Spat". In 1983 and 1988 due to the freezes. They killed every living oyster in those bays. And once or twice more due to red tides in the 90's. In all cases the oysters bounced back within two years.
 
#79 ·
The illegal harvest of oysters is a deadly proposition. If these oysters are being harvested from quarantined reefs or with little regard for the law then the serving of these oysters can and will harm the public when consumed. Lawbreakers like this care little for whom they hurt. It would be wise not to consume oysters in restaurants due to this concern because you could wind up in the hospital fighting for your life or worse.
 
#81 · (Edited)
Total economic output for ALL commercial fishing in Texas $2.2billion & jobs 27k
Source -> http://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/economics/publications/feus/fisheries_economics_2011

Total economic output for ALL recreational fishing in Texas $1.4billion & jobs 13k
Source ->
http://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/Assets/...er Expenditures in the United States 2011.pdf

The question is what is a better use of the resource in terms of long run economics. I think with the ever increasing fuel costs and the downward pressure on prices by farmed sources .. perhaps the industryregulations for seafood harvest need to be realigned...

I just don't see how with a increasing population + a increase in operations costs ..that commercial wild harvest can be seen as a viable business model( or environmentally sustainable) that needs defending
 
#82 · (Edited)
We have a yearly seafood trade deficit of about 9.3 Billion dollars. I have never understood the Recreational/Commercial us or them mentality. We should do our best as a nation to promote both a sustainable commercial and recreational harvest.

When it comes to oysters the recreational harvest amounts to almost nothing. So lets maximize the economic benefit of the commercial harvest. Especially since 90+ percent of our total coastal area is permanently closed to harvest of oysters.

To put it into perspective what would the trout fishery be in our state if 90% of the total area that contains trout were permanently closed? I'm going to guess it would be hard to catch a legal trout in the few square miles of bay still open?
 
#83 ·
Group petitions Texas Parks and Wildlife to permanently close Christmas Bay to oyster industry

GALVESTON - Bruce Bodson looked disapprovingly at a wide, rutted trail carved through the marsh at the edge of one of the most pristine bays on the upper Texas Gulf Coast.

Four-wheeled ATVs ferrying 110-pound bags of oysters had crushed the glasswort and cordgrass into the mud along a long arc around the lip of Drum Bay, which forms the western end of Christmas Bay. The damage left a scar that could take years to heal and cause the shoreline to erode, said Bodson, executive director of Galveston Bay Keepers, as he took in the scene last Thursday.

Oyster boats churned through the shallow waters of Brazoria County's unspoiled Christmas Bay this season for the first time in at least 16 years, leading to accusations of environmental damage and calls for closing it and neighboring Drum Bay. The drive to find oysters in this designated natural preserve is a result of high oyster prices and oyster scarcity, said Lance Robinson, Texas Parks and Wildlife deputy director.

If oystermen return next season, the damage would be worse, Bodson said. "It won't sustain this year after year," he said.

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/new...istmas-Bay-oyster-closure-sought-11077192.php
 
#85 ·
Full article:


GALVESTON - Bruce Bodson looked disapprovingly at a wide, rutted trail carved through the marsh at the edge of one of the most pristine bays on the upper Texas Gulf Coast.

Four-wheeled ATVs ferrying 110-pound bags of oysters had crushed the glasswort and cordgrass into the mud along a long arc around the lip of Drum Bay, which forms the western end of Christmas Bay. The damage left a scar that could take years to heal and cause the shoreline to erode, said Bodson, executive director of Galveston Bay Keepers, as he took in the scene last Thursday.

Oyster boats churned through the shallow waters of Brazoria County's unspoiled Christmas Bay this season for the first time in at least 16 years, leading to accusations of environmental damage and calls for closing it and neighboring Drum Bay. The drive to find oysters in this designated natural preserve is a result of high oyster prices and oyster scarcity, said Lance Robinson, Texas Parks and Wildlife deputy director.

If oystermen return next season, the damage would be worse, Bodson said. "It won't sustain this year after year," he said.

Christmas Bay is a 9-square-mile haven for wildlife and the last bay on the Upper Texas Gulf Coast with significant seagrass beds, which provide a home for shrimp, crab and many varieties of fish. With the exception of a portion of West Galveston Bay, seagrass has largely disappeared on the upper coast.

"At least in the Galveston Bay system, this is one of the last unaltered, undisturbed areas," Bodson said.

But the recent oyster harvesting is putting this serene landscape at risk. Oyster boats endangered seagrass in Christmas Bay, said Scott Jones, Galveston Bay Foundation advocacy director. Jones said ATVs have splashed through fragile wetlands and harvesters used rookery islands as staging areas for heavy oyster sacks, driving away birds that nest on the islands and potentially crushing eggs,

To keep Christmas Bay pristine, the Outdoor Coastal Council last week petitioned the Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission to permanently close the bay to oyster harvesting. Signatures on the petition included some of the most important oyster companies in Galveston Bay, which halted oyster harvesting after they understood the potential environmental damage.

"It is a pristine area and a small bay," said Clifford Hillman, CEO of Hillman Shrimp and Oyster Co. and one of the petition signers. "If there is damage to that bay, it should be closed to all and not just some."


The petition is signed by officials from six oyster companies and five environmental groups. "I'm really pleased with the broad scope of individuals who are in support of it," said Brad Bonney, Outdoor Coastal Council regional director.

The commission can vote to close the bay for environmental reasons, but Parks and Wildlife staff also can close bays to oystering if there are too many oysters below the legal 3-inch size. A crew began sampling Christmas Bay oysters last week, and the results should be available this week, said Christine Jensen, fisheries biologist.

Only nine of 34 oyster areas on the Texas coast remain open, and those nine are some of the smallest, Robinson said.

As the available oyster areas shrink, high prices lure oyster boats onto the water. The oyster prices in 2016 shot to $5.50 a pound, the highest on record, according to Parks and Wildlife figures. Oystermen say prices are similar this year.

The oyster beds were closed either for health reasons or to let the oyster reefs recover after more than eight years of natural disasters. Hurricane Ike in 2008 severely damaged the oyster reefs in Galveston Bay, which until that year supplied as much 90 percent of Texas' annual oyster harvest.

The oyster season, Nov. 1 to April 30, is nearly over, and last week a man and woman, who declined to give their names, were the only commercial oyster harvesters in Drum Bay. Christmas and Drum bays are so shallow that oysters, normally harvested with a dredge, must be plucked from the bottom by hand. The pair waded knee deep, bending over to collect oysters from the bottom, "I average about 9-12 bags a day," the woman said.

Many of the oyster crews were unaware of the environmental sensitivity of the area. Johnny Halili, owner of Prestige Oysters, said some of his oyster boats initially worked Christmas Bay but pulled out as soon as they learned of the environmental concerns. One of the Prestige boat captains, Gezim Halili, said he and his crew mistook marsh grass for seagrass, not realizing that seagrass was below the surface. He said that several other oyster companies pulled out along with Prestige, but at least four oyster companies continued to harvest oysters despite environmental concerns.

Christmas Bay was declared a coastal preserve in 1991, but the declaration carried no special enforcement provisions, said Robinson, the Texas Parks and Wildlife deputy director. Bodson said the bay was closed to shrimping, but not to oystering, probably because it wasn't being harvested for oysters commercially at the time.

It's unclear if any commercial oystering was done between 1991 and 2000, the year the Texas Department of State Health Services closed Christmas and Drum bays, which the department considers a single area, because of a high bacteria count. The department reopened the bay two years ago, but oyster companies were unaware of it being open until about February of this year.

With most of the oyster reefs closed for health reasons or to allow small oysters to mature, oyster companies this year sought advice from Texas Parks and Wildlife, said Lisa Halili, who owns Prestige Oysters with her husband, Johnny Halili. Parks and Wildlife pointed out that Christmas Bay was open, and the rush began.

Oyster boats from all over Texas swooped into Christmas and Drum bays, where they found huge oysters measuring as large as 6 inches.

Some boats began stacking heavy sacks of oysters on rookery islands in the bay, driving birds away from their nests and potentially crushing bird eggs. Bay residents and sport fishermen complained to Brazoria County officials about boat landings clogged by oyster company boat trailers. They also complained about a mound of trash piled by commercial oystermen.

Brazoria County officials could not be reached for comment, but Gezim Halili said that Commissioner Donald "Dude" Payne, county Parks Director Brian Frazier, a county engineer and a representative of the District Attorney's Office showed up at the boat ramp on Amigo Road early this month and announced that the ramp would be closed to commercial oyster boats.

About the same time Lisa Halili began receiving calls warning her that it was illegal to damage seagrass. She began calling environmentalists and learned about their concerns. Prestige Oysters promptly pulled its boats from the bay, and several other companies followed suit.

Hurricane Ike was not the only disaster to impact the future of oyster reefs in Galveston Bay.

The storm was followed by the BP oil spill in 2010, which led to intense harvesting of Texas oyster reefs because it was the only state unaffected by the spill. In 2011 a five-year drought began that increased bay salinity, creating a breeding ground for oyster disease and predators. That same year blooms of poisonous algae, known as red tide, closed many oyster reefs. In 2015 and 2016 heavy flooding pumped enormous amounts of fresh water into Galveston and surrounding bays, killing untold numbers of oysters.

By 2016 only 26 percent of a much-reduced Texas oyster harvest came from Galveston Bay. The total oyster catch in pounds fell from 6.13 million pounds in 2013 to 2.5 million pounds in 2016.

Robinson, the Parks and Wildlife official, said that the Texas oyster fleet is too large for the number of oysters that can be safely harvested without depleting the oyster reefs. Bills under consideration by the Legislature, House Bill 51 and Senate Bill 1566, would allow the state to buy back oyster licenses from fishermen to reduce pressure on oyster reefs. The legislation also would require a GPS on all oyster boats so that they can be tracked by Parks and Wildlife officials. The GPS would help the agency understand where oysters were being overharvested and show when a boat entered an area that was off limits.

Prestige owner Johnny Halili, who signed the petition to close Christmas Bay, said Parks and Wildlife's efforts to revive the oyster population are working and that many oyster reefs closed by the state will likely reopen next year to a bountiful harvest, taking pressure off Christmas Bay.
 
#87 ·
http://www.2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showpost.php?p=20460945&postcount=71
http://www.2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showpost.php?p=20461377&postcount=75

Guess they got all they could while destroying both shoreline and seagrass beds and now they're favor of shutting it down so that the little local guy can't go out and and try and **** some oysters in a effort to eek out a living, see the name on the truck and who was buying all they could get their hands on? This same thing goes on in every bay along the coast, earlier this year it was St Charles, last year it was Copano, the big fleet moves in and grinds the reefs down till TPWD shuts it down and they move on to the next one and the local guys get put out of business while the fleet moves on to the next bay, once they run out of public reefs to rake over they end up in Galveston on their private leases and all that left behind them is a trail of overfished bays. What a screwed up system, folks need to call their representatives and get HB51 passed to get some of these permits retired and put measures in place to help game wardens enforce the laws on the books.
 
#88 ·
Of course the oyster houses that have private leases want Christmas bay shut down. What do you think does to the value of their leases? Hillman's, Prestige, Misho's all have their own leases.

Closing more bays is not the answer. It's going to force more and more into less and less. It's just plain ignorant.

In addition we already have laws against destroying wetlands, underwater grasses, blocking boat ramps etc. We don't need more laws, we need enforceable ones. And the GPS is just as ignorant. If you are going to "outlaw" do you think the GPS is going to be enabled?

It's just going to cost the boats more money, the "cost" will be passed down to the consumer and the price of oysters is going to go up.

Instead of 100 boats working next year they all will be working because the price of oysters will be 80 dollars a sack. For God sakes these guys keep making the same mistake over and over....
 
#89 ·
And the truth about why Halili, Misho and other "buyers" are supporting the GPS requirement? They all have private leases. Leases stocked with ripe succulent oysters that many just can't resist sneaking onto.

They wan't a government subsidized "private security" force.

Newsflash. As a commercial oyster fisherman I don't want to pay for Prestige's security. I have and ADT system in my house to protect me and mine and I don't expect Halili to pay for it.
 
#93 ·
Thats probably and accurate assessment. As far as shutting down Christmas Bay. It's going to be shut down for everyone. Nobody will ever eat another oyster out of the bay because of this petition. That includes recreational fishermen.

If the greenies shut it down to oystering. Whats next? Hunting? Fishing?

In addition with it's closing more pressure is going to be put on other bays. Thats just not a "management plan" as much as it is a knee-jerk reaction.
 
#104 ·
.50 cents a sack would be a good start. That would raise thousands of dollars every week. And yes all "fees" are ultimately passed down to the consumer.

Just like all the other buyback programs license holders would submit bids. Every year dozens would be voluntarily retired. It's worked wonders for the shrimp, crab and fin-fish fisheries.
 
#108 ·
Newsflash, Prices are going to going up no matter what. Even with your plan, retired licenses mean less boats on the water and oysters at the dock, couple lower supply with higher demand and prices are going up just like they have with shrimp and fin-fish. Hopefully the supply lowering results in a rebound in the fishery if mother nature cooperates, no guarantee of that but we can do better than the current system and HB51 is our only pending legislation taking a step in the right direction.
 
#110 ·
Newsflash, Prices are going to going up no matter what. Even with your plan, retired licenses mean less boats on the water and oysters at the dock, couple lower supply with higher demand and prices are going up just like they have with shrimp and fin-fish. Hopefully the supply lowering results in a rebound in the fishery if mother nature cooperates, no guarantee of that but we can do better than the current system and HB51 is our only pending legislation taking a step in the right direction.
Boat prices for Shrimp and Crab have been stagnant for years while over that same period oyster prices have almost tripled. In addition non effective regulation that artificially drives up prices is the last thing you want. It will cause the price of both oysters and licenses to go up and when you are trying to "retire" licenses you don't want them being worth more.

Keep in mind I have a commercial oyster license. In the short run, I am going to make more money if they pass this nonsense as written. Which is why the big boys like it. Just had my best year oystering in decades harvesting much fewer oysters.

However, unlike some of the other guys I am looking at the long term stability of the fishery. Driving the price up will:

A.) Put more pressure on the resource.
B.) Cost the State much more to retire licenses.
C.) Incentivize inactive boats to hit the water.

None of which are good things.

I think we agree on HB-51 as it pertains to the buyback. It's a good thing. Keep that, trash everything else in the bill that will not be effective and just drive the price up.
 
#101 ·
From what I can see, you are the exception to the rule It's Catchy. You seem to do it the right way, but you are a small operator. As is evidenced by the photos posted earlier, most of your commercial brethren aren't so concerned about the impact they make as long as they get what they are after. I call BS on Ms. Halili's excuse that they didn't realize the difference between marsh grass and sea grass. They flat didn't care until it was discovered.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top