Sex Education

[Tom]

As Surgeon General, Jocelyn Elders recommended teaching masturbation in school as part of sex education. That is what got her fired. Recently Debra Lafave offered a more advanced sex education class in a Florida school. She got fired too. Does this mean that we want our children to get their sex education like we did by reading about it on the walls of public rest rooms? I think I’ve got to much time on my hands.

[DannyMac]

Tom, we are in the process of developing a "Health Component" for our Intermediate Physical Ed classes. The issue of "sex ed" came up and I put the kybosh on it. My statement was, "that we do not need to get involved in this topic" If parents want their kids to know about sex, it is their job to inform their kids not the school.

It is too controversial and too dangerous for school teachers/coaches to under take.

[jc]

call it a health component or whatever, but kids need to be taught about birth control and disease prevention at school. leaving it only in the hands of parents means that a lot of kids are taught nothing at all

jc

[MrsG]

call it a health component or whatever, but kids need to be taught about birth control and disease prevention at school. leaving it only in the hands of parents means that a lot of kids are taught nothing at all

jc Well, those who live in caves without access to TV, friends, or the internet. :)

[podnuh]

Kids need to be given the whole picture. This can only be done in a structured environment. If you want them to learn from friends, TV, internet, etc...they'll only get the juicy parts and won't learn about responsibility, disease control, etc...Sex education must be in public schools. To avoid this task through some "let them learn it at home" policy is shortchanging the students and avoiding your real responstibility. DO YOUR JOB!

[Tom]

What happened to nice girls don’t, and If the baby is yours, marry the mother?

[podnuh]

sure, and we should just preach absinence. I don't know how old you are, but when I was a teenager...it's about all that I thought about. My brother raised his sons with a "boys will be boys" attitude. I have daughters and hated to hear that. Peer pressure must be counteracted with knowledge. If we refuse to provide that knowledge, we'll end up with thousands of pregnant teenagers and daycare at middle schools.
Wait...we have that now!

[MrsG]

And there has been sex ed in the schools for over 20 years!! It doesn't seem to be helping. The most important thing is parents and schools, even with the best of intentions, in most cases cannot fix this problem.

[waterspout]

nowdays girl are as bad or worse than boys. You better start teaching your kids in elem. waiting is a no no. if some of you don't think so you better wake up quick. Kids know more( maybe not responsibilty) than any of us knew at their age. Parents,,, you don't have time to wait for someone else to teach them period. Wake up and quit putting it off on someone elses shoulders.

[capn]

History sure seems to have proven that nobody's teaching but parents' is effective in this arena. If anything it just legitimizes it so that they are no long embarassed by it in public. And, even worse, it provides alternatives to what the good parents are teaching in their homes and just undermines the lessons the kids with caring parents had already learned.

It wasn't too long ago I had to go thru sex ed in highschool (I graduated high school in 97). It no doubt undermined everything my parents had taught me. Luckily, I was bright enough to know that I couldn't trust what the well-known lesbian teacher was teaching the class. Some of my classmates apparently weren't as bright.

[KatsMeow]

I really don't want a teacher talking, discussing or teaching sex-ed to my kids.
That is mine and my husbands job no one elses. The last thing I want to do is correct the information that my child perceived was right on such an important topic. What little bit of time is spent on that could be put to better use.
Meow

[waterspout]

one other thing,, opening up and talking to your kids about this will open doors in more ways than you think. If parents want to know what their kids are doing they better open the doors. L8R!

[podnuh]

Definitely, the parent's job. Unfortunately, there are manymany households that are single-parent homes where the sole care-giver has neither the time nor the desire to provide this counseling.
Of course it would be better if all families were like the Cleavers or the Nelsons, but realistically, it's not always the case.
My wife is a nurse in a poor inner-city high school. She has numerous pregnant students and a day-care in the school for students' babies. She is not allowed to provide family counseling or condoms.
Let's get our heads out of the clouds and deal with the real world, people.

[Blue Water Ho]

We will always have the "Who my baby daddy" ones around. :D

[MrsG]

Definitely, the parent's job. Unfortunately, there are manymany households that are single-parent homes where the sole care-giver has neither the time nor the desire to provide this counseling.
Of course it would be better if all families were like the Cleavers or the Nelsons, but realistically, it's not always the case.
My wife is a nurse in a poor inner-city high school. She has numerous pregnant students and a day-care in the school for students' babies. She is not allowed to provide family counseling or condoms.
Let's get our heads out of the clouds and deal with the real world, people. I'm trying to deal with the real world. We have had sex education in the schools for quite some time. Is it reducing pregnancy, sexually transmitted disease, or teen moms? I don't see any evidence that it's had much effect at all.

As far as what your wife is able to say, does that vary from district to district? Some schools are allowed to do those things.

My contention would be we've tried just sex education alone and it isn't having the effect we would like to see, especially for the most at risk kiddos. I have no idea how to reach them, nor if it's possible. I only know what has worked for my own children.

It might be a better idea to teach these girls to respect themselves and their futures by refusing sex until they are old enough to deal with the consequences, whatever those might be.

[capn]

Let's get our heads out of the clouds and deal with the real world, people.
In the real world, sex ed obviously isn't working.

Giving kids condoms is only providing a false sense of protection, because you are simply condoning their actions. And because their actions are ok, guess what they are gonna do whether they have a condom or not.

To cure a disease, you got to get to the root and fix it there. Give a fella with pneumonia some cough syrup to make the coughing hurt less is not going to save him from the pneumonia. And in no way do I believe that the root of the problem lies in the availability of birth control or a teacher teaching a class about sex, so I don't condone treating it that way.

Especially not at the expense of many of the would be good kids.

[DANO]

Parents should talk to their Children about these Matters " Sex, Child Prevention and Masterbation " !!!!!!!

As far as Sex goes,.. I took Matters into My Own Hands,....Now I can " ROW A BOAT WITH A ROPE " !!!!!!!!

The Major Problem is that Most Parents Do Not Speak with their Children on These Topics !!!!!!!!

Once that "ITCH" is Scratched it is Always "ITCHING" and Hopefully it is not in the form of a Type of " STD "!!!

[jc]

we teach our kids about their bodies and their health and nutrition starting at kindergarten in the public schools... my experience was that I got a comprehensive education from hair to internal organs... that included some very limited top secret and segregated (by sex) special health classes... as a species we are designed to become sexually active in our teens... culturally we try to prolong the age of innocence, and rightfully so. Although physically capable, our kids are not culturally or emotionally prepared for full scale sexual, adult relationships until they are in their late teens (IMO). I graduated HS in 1985 so I'm approaching 40... and still discovering and uncovering the lies, mysteries and wives tales about sex. I would think that sex education is not about giving kids condoms... but rather teaching them the science and age appropriate reality of sex...

I will certainly do my part to educate my child as I see fit. But I know for a fact a lot of others will simply not address these issues, or won't address them in a realistic fashion. Since the control of the spread of diseases such as chlamydia, hpv virus, genital herpes, aids, etc. is truly a public health issue, I see absolutely no reason it should not be taught in school. Since NOT bringing a child into this world at a very young age is an important element in most successful people's lives, I would suggest this part of an education is very important.

jc

[capn]

as a species we are designed to become sexually active in our teens...

I would think that sex education is not about giving kids condoms... but rather teaching them the science and age appropriate reality of sex...
Couple comments. First, anyone else find it humorous to see human beings referred to as a species, but claim that we are designed, in the same sentence? lol Probly not what you meant, but it struck me as funny.

OK, I would argue that we are actually not designed to become sexually active in our early teens. Our bodies become capable of sexual activity so that we can prepare to become sexually active in the future. I would argue that our emotional and spiritual make up are not simply cultural, and that no child becomes ready emotionally and spiritually for sexual activity until the atleast the later teens - though culture can sometime delay that readiness, as I think it does in our case. I realize this is very similar to what you followed up with and may be a case of semantics, but I felt it a point worth making.

With the second statement, I'm actually inclined to agree with you. The problem is how does the public school system define the age appropriateness of sex? I don't think they are able to. They are too limited by varying points of view and the inability to factor in religious teachings and morals. It is a judgment call, and not everyone is going to agree, so in today's politicallly correct world, I don't see how public school officials can determine an age or time of life where a child becomes ready for sexual activity.

The science of it, I'm ok with. That's just part of health class and a lesson on the human body. But when it goes beyond that, and a teacher is stating when it's appropriate for my kid to become sexually active, or provides birth control, or teaches them how to do certain parts of it - there are too many parts of that formula that require input from factors the public school system can't consider.

[KatsMeow]

The time spent on learning the body is important, but the small amount of time spent on sex education can't surpass the image that is portrayed in all other facets of a childs life.
This problem has no barriers and crosses all walks of life.
I think Mrs G hit the nail on the head with teaching self-respect and for them to learn how to add value to their life. I really worry about the next generation.
I'm just not sure how we go about getting it done.
Meow

[jc]

Couple comments. First, anyone else find it humorous to see human beings referred to as a species, but claim that we are designed, in the same sentence? lol Probly not what you meant, but it struck me as funny.

Busted me ;)


OK, I would argue that we are actually not designed to become sexually active in our early teens.

I take a biological or physiological(?) approach... young girls are menstruating and young boys are fully prepared to participate biologically by early to mid-teens.... some sooner, some later... but regardless, at this point it becomes somewhat of a battle between our bodies and our minds... our minds are developed thru education, formal and informal.... and thru socialization at home, church, school, the internet, etc.

Our bodies become capable of sexual activity so that we can prepare to become sexually active in the future.

I think you are mixing biology and a cultural perspective

I would argue that our emotional and spiritual make up are not simply cultural, and that no child becomes ready emotionally and spiritually for sexual activity until the atleast the later teens

emotionally, spiritually, culturally, mentally... I agree that our kids reach a level of maturity where sex might reasonably become a part of their lives at different ages... I leave that to the individual to decide and dont care to argue when a kid is prepared to have sex. But if an 18 year old wants to have legal sex I would never attempt to stop them... unless it was my own child. So in the middle of a teen's senior year in high school they can legally have sex, I think they should have been educated and taught the basics and REALITIES of the world they are entering

- though culture can sometime delay that readiness, as I think it does in our case. I realize this is very similar to what you followed up with and may be a case of semantics, but I felt it a point worth making.

important point you are drawing attention to... our society is fairly open about sex... our media and art exploit sex to the hilt (no pun intended)... so that we have a coliseum of 30,000 14-24 year olds chanting "I want to *&^% you like an animal" at the NIN concert on Saturday night... then a gym/health teacher on Monday morning trying to push abstinence... I don't think our 14 year old kids should be having sex... but I know for a fact that a good portion of our 17 year olds are having sex. Lets not only educate them about what they are going through, but also prepare them for what they will be going thru in the future... there are a lot of negative and positive ramifications of a sexually active life. Since our kids are waiting a lot longer to get married, it is only realistic to ackowledge that they are going to have more sexual partners in general... and this leads to a higher liklihood of experienceing unplanned pregnancies and all types of std's

With the second statement, I'm actually inclined to agree with you. The problem is how does the public school system define the age appropriateness of sex? I don't think they are able to.

nobody knows when a child will have a checkbook of their own, or need to implement the pythagoreum theory... but we teach them so that they will be prepared. I would say that we start out teaching younger children... 8-10 yrs the basic physiology of "baby-making" and step them up incrementally. A 10 year old does not need to know that pubic lice can and will run rampant thru a household or dormitory through shared clothing... but this type of realistic scenario may be helpful for a college freshman (before entering the dorm)

They are too limited by varying points of view and the inability to factor in religious teachings and morals.

Keep it to science and reality based education assuming that almost every single child will become sexually active at some point or another. Atheists and the devout alike need to know the basics... of birth control if nothing else. Parents that are truly offended always have the option of home-schooling right?

It is a judgment call, and not everyone is going to agree, so in today's politicallly correct world, I don't see how public school officials can determine an age or time of life where a child becomes ready for sexual activity.

I am in total agreement that it is not an easy task. But we shouldn't throw out the baby with the bathwater. An ounce of prevention... I think we should assume some kids will begin experimenting with sex as early as elementary and some will totally abstain until marriage.... then target tens with information that will help the bulk of them deal with these very complicated issues as most of them become active between age 15-19

The science of it, I'm ok with. That's just part of health class and a lesson on the human body.

Good, me too.

But when it goes beyond that, and a teacher is stating when it's appropriate for my kid to become sexually active,

I would never suggest the school or a teacher telling kids when it is appropriate to begin having sex

or provides birth control,

football helmets yes... condoms, no... if the kids aren't aware they can buy condoms at a pharmacy they should be made aware... especially if they are that naive and sheltered

or teaches them how to do certain parts of it - there are too many parts of that formula that require input from factors the public school system can't consider.

hey, save something for larry flynn... I'm sure my kids will be ever bit as creative as my generation, but hopefully a little safer. sex education should have very little to do with the actual sex act in my opinion
jc

[capn]

Dang, I can't quote you now! http://www.2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/images/icons/icon10.gif

But basically, you disagreed with me about where I expected. Most notably where you stated I was mixing biology with a cultural perspective. I would hold that I'm mixing biology with an emotional/psychological perspective. I am stating that the emotions and psyche don't mature enough for sex in ANY culture at the age of puberty, when the body does. It will always be later. Whether that is 16 or 24 is dependent on culture.

I thought your statements about our society being fairly open about sex were interesting, because while that is very true, I believe it's also true that our society creates individuals who aren't emotionally or psychologically ready for sex until a GREATER age than most other societies (though many are catching up to us). I believe that it's because we are so open about sex, too. Meaning, we are so open that we have opened ourselves to countless myths, misnomers, and misunderstandings that have taken and continue to take root in our young people. That delays their ability to have a true understanding about what sex REALLY entails and means.

And again, I think we keep coming back to the fact that this sex deal is just a symptom. You can try to treat it, but it isn't going to get any better until you get to the root cause and fix it there. There are bigger things at work in these individual's lives, and in our society as a whole.

This may sound bad to some, but having a baby isn't the worst thing in the world for a couple of teenagers that need to have their lives turned upside down. I know of a ton of people where that is what it took to turn things around and basically start over. It isn't the end of the world, even though it may seem like it at the time. Of course I know of a lot of people where they just kept on down the same path, but not everyone wins at life.