Ah hah.....

[Capt Kat]

So there was diliberate deception by Iraq before we went in.


Take that Michael Moore (and the like)!!!


http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Investigation/story?id=1616996

[centexfisher]

Interesting...He stated that Iraq would not do something like a terrorist attack with biological, chemical or nuclear weapons, and that he had (the operative word is "had") wmd's in 1996. We have long known that he had wmd's in 1996; as far as I recall, that was never the debate-the debate was whether or not he had them just prior to our attack as we were led to believe (including by saddam's defiance). Weren't we also led to believe that we believed he would use them against the U.S. if he could? This tape aparently demonstrates that wasn't accurate either (the word "accurate" is carefully chosen-the word "truth" was intentionally not used).

I don't want to re-open this debate because, at this point, it is academic. We are there and we absolutely must finish what we started. Although I am highly suspicious that this administration did manipulate intel for it's own objectives, I also believe that it is imperative that both the prez and especially our troops be supported-from the moment we went into Iraq on the ground until the job is finished. I also believe that it is appropriate to search for the definitive truth about the use of the intel at the time. I still don't believe that question has been definitively answered and regardless which direction one leans (intel use was appropriate vs. manipulated), we deserve to learn the truth. I think it is naiive to assume that we know the truth at this point-regardless which way one leans.

[gatorbait]

Interesting...He stated that Iraq would not do something like a terrorist attack with biological, chemical or nuclear weapons, and that he had (the operative word is "had") wmd's in 1996. We have long known that he had wmd's in 1996; as far as I recall, that was never the debate-the debate was whether or not he had them just prior to our attack as we were led to believe (including by saddam's defiance). Weren't we also led to believe that we believed he would use them against the U.S. if he could? This tape aparently demonstrates that wasn't accurate either (the word "accurate" is carefully chosen-the word "truth" was intentionally not used).

I don't want to re-open this debate because, at this point, it is academic. We are there and we absolutely must finish what we started. Although I am highly suspicious that this administration did manipulate intel for it's own objectives, I also believe that it is imperative that both the prez and especially our troops be supported-from the moment we went into Iraq on the ground until the job is finished. I also believe that it is appropriate to search for the definitive truth about the use of the intel at the time. I still don't believe that question has been definitively answered and regardless which direction one leans (intel use was appropriate vs. manipulated), we deserve to learn the truth. I think it is naiive to assume that we know the truth at this point-regardless which way one leans.
There is no doubt in my mind he didnt have them when we went into Iraq in 2003. There isnt much arguement from the right there either. Heck, there were enough witnesses who reported seeing many many convoys going into Syria that we could actually sell out a Texans game if we gave em all a ticket. But either way we are there and must finish it, if we leave before its done then what was the point in the first place. We will win, no doubt. May not totally defeat the insurgents but Iraq will have democracy and will eventually be able to rule and protect themselves.

Z

[Red3Fish]

"May not totally defeat the insurgents but Iraq will have democracy and will eventually be able to rule and protect themselves."

Not to start an arguement, but I just dont see them being able to have democracy, and able to rule and protect themselves. Three radical. divisive and militant relegious groups trying to have a democracy? Dont think so. Meanest dog in the pack will rule.

Protect themselves? Not without a major presence from us. Two strong and militant neighbors on two sides, just waiting for us to leave so they can infiltrate and take over the gov. and their oil supplies, perhaps not by direct military take over, but assination and intimidation. Democracy is NOT the best form of government for some countries. IMHO Iraq is one of these. Contrary to what most Americans believe, you cannot "force" democracy on some people. A benevolent, strong dictatorship would work much better for them.

I am afraid Iraq is going to be an ugly, red headed step-child to the U.S. for a long time!

On the other hand.....if we destroyed the two "bad" neighbors' war machines, then we would have three, ugly red headed step children. Not a pleasant thought.

Later
R3F

[Makoman1]

"May not totally defeat the insurgents but Iraq will have democracy and will eventually be able to rule and protect themselves."

Not to start an arguement, but I just dont see them being able to have democracy, and able to rule and protect themselves. Three radical. divisive and militant relegious groups trying to have a democracy? Dont think so. Meanest dog in the pack will rule.

Protect themselves? Not without a major presence from us. Two strong and militant neighbors on two sides, just waiting for us to leave so they can infiltrate and take over the gov. and their oil supplies, perhaps not by direct military take over, but assination and intimidation. Democracy is NOT the best form of government for some countries. IMHO Iraq is one of these. Contrary to what most Americans believe, you cannot "force" democracy on some people. A benevolent, strong dictatorship would work much better for them.

I am afraid Iraq is going to be an ugly, red headed step-child to the U.S. for a long time!

On the other hand.....if we destroyed the two "bad" neighbors' war machines, then we would have three, ugly red headed step children. Not a pleasant thought.

Later
R3F
Very insightful!!! It seem you walk to a different tune. Thats a good thing, glade you can see past the BS. Most are just sheep being lead around by a couple of wolfs in dresses.