Monopoly and Oil

[bluefin]

With all the oil companies making gobs of money, do they have any incentive, or logically, do they have a big disincentive (is that a word?) when it comes to alternative power? In the game of monopoly the object is to buy up as many properties as you can and then start to build homes and then hotels. This would eventually force your other competitors into ceding over their properties until they can no longer play - ala Wal Mart. Bush stated in his State of the Union that he wished to see a huge increase in alternative power. The question is what is there to prevent the oil companies and their new bank accounts from buying patents or personnel that are maybe developing these new technologies thereby preventing or slowing them down?

[Snagged]

With all the oil companies making gobs of money, do they have any incentive, or logically, do they have a big disincentive (is that a word?) when it comes to alternative power? In the game of monopoly the object is to buy up as many properties as you can and then start to build homes and then hotels. This would eventually force your other competitors into ceding over their properties until they can no longer play - ala Wal Mart. Bush stated in his State of the Union that he wished to see a huge increase in alternative power. The question is what is there to prevent the oil companies and their new bank accounts from buying patents or personnel that are maybe developing these new technologies thereby preventing or slowing them down?



:fireworks Bingo.

[Farmer Jim]

Big oil will not seriously move into any research and development programs related to alternate energy until the availability of hydrocarbon based energy reaches crisis level. This isn't a dig at them, it is simply common sense. If you ran a company with a gigantic asset base tied to a particular type of business, you would have to be insane to make any substantial commitment to developing something that would render all of that huge investment worthless.

The only way to develop something before we reach the crisis level will be through government initiatives. We are only at the problem stage now, but some folks in Washington had better start the process now or we will be crippled economically and turned into a second rate nation. If this thing is allowed to play out the way it has been in the past, our grandchildren will live in a country that will look more like 1930 than 2006.

The best answer lies in creating a NASA-like program for alternate energy. If we aren't willing to do that, the second best choice is funding research through universities or private research labs unrelated to the oil industry.

[Monarchy]

Amen, brother. If we'd cut about half of the NASA budget and use it for fuel cell development, I sure would feel a little better about where we are all headed.

Really, how many Tonka Toys do we need to send to Mars?

Personally, I'm zero bid at 1.

[centexfisher]

Amen, brother. If we'd cut about half of the NASA budget and use it for fuel cell development, I sure would feel a little better about where we are all headed.

Really, how many Tonka Toys do we need to send to Mars?

Personally, I'm zero bid at 1.I think I agree with you on this one. I think NASA is important enough to continue to budget, but that NASA is cost inefficient and what better way to force them to get more efficeint than to cut their budget, and meanwhile we can focus on other priorities,

The problem with all of this-it make sense.

[bluefin]

I'm not sure that a NASA like government dept. is the way to go. If you really want to put some teeth into it hide it in a part of the military dept's expenditures just like the highway dept does. It's a great way to sink a lot of money into it without a lot of oversight committees henpecking it to death like they do with NASA's budget.

Now back on the oil companies. They have no incentive to let alternative power take over their market share. Can anyone say 'American Steel'? No one fifty years ago would have envisioned their position today...

[GUNnROD]

Well I know most you don't want to here it. But, I for one don't want to see alternative fuels. I have been employed in oil field related industry my whole life and I've got about twenty more years to go.

I also have to ask. What makes any of you think this world is any where near running out of oil?

I can remember in the not to distant past that scientist still explained oil as being formed by decaying plant matter and dinosaurs. Do any of y'all still believe that?

[Snagged]

Let's put it this way, according to my information they are pumping water into MidEast well to force the oil out.
I don't think that is a normal situation.

[kevin leftwich]

Back in the fifties a man developed the Fish Carb. It was a single throated carb with dual jets. I new of a man that installed one of two that he owned on a 75 cadillac. His gas mileage reached around 24 miles per gallon. He had obtained these carbs while in California years before and had made adapter plates for his vehicles, so he could use them on his vehicles. According to him, the man ( Fish ) was ready to patent and sell them and an oil producer made him an offer suffficient enough for him to sell to them and it never made it to market. They evidently did not want this carb on the market.

[Snagged]

Back in the fifties a man developed the Fish Carb. It was a single throated carb with dual jets. I new of a man that installed one of two that he owned on a 75 cadillac. His gas mileage reached around 24 miles per gallon. He had obtained these carbs while in California years before and had made adapter plates for his vehicles, so he could use them on his vehicles. According to him, the man ( Fish ) was ready to patent and sell them and an oil producer made him an offer suffficient enough for him to sell to them and it never made it to market. They evidently did not want this carb on the market.
http://www.fireballroberts.com/Fish_Story.htm

Yes, they existed.

[fishsmart]

There are a number of things that can be done with fuel to increase fuel economy. However some of them increase cylinder temperatures and the life of the engine becomes a problem. With outboard engines you have serious problems as the pistons are aluminum.

Charles

[bluefin]

I'm glad you brought up the heat exchange discussion b/c one of the things I was wondering about with alternative power is how long would parts last? With alt. power would the friction/heat be sufficiently less that parts to power cars and such last longer? Then if they do last longer and there is less demand for automobiles then you have the auto makers potentially buying up patents etc to prevent them from entering the market. This could be an interesting and huge problem as there would be less demand for fuel, cars, car parts then fewer workers and then of course less money flowing thru the market. The US market has always been known as the throw it away type market but it is also a market that employs a heck of a lot of people.

[Ernest]

Nice "fish" story, but cut to the chase here. Are you alleging the principles were not incorporated into other technology, or alternatively, that the "fish" device out performed other eq. over an extended period of time.

Surely you are not suggesting that with the millions upon millions poured into carb developement by literally thousands of experienced engineers spanning the globe for over a forty year time span (which increases every single day), this wonderous device was somehow buried?

Patents are public records, right? The foreign car makers just overlooked this wonderous device while they were hard at work reverse engineering other technology?

Nice "fish" story, but how about telling us the rest of the story?

[centexfisher]

The rest of the story...

Ernest didn't believe it so it must be untrue!

Disclaimer: Just kidding.

[Red3Fish]

I hate to line up on the side of the aisle with a lawyer, but I am with Ernest on this one. All these wonderful plans filed at the patient office, just sitting there with no enterprising soul to purchase rights to them and become a billionaire.

I am 61 and these stories have been around since I was a wee lad. Some may have a grain of truth to them, but I think they left off the BUT.....part. But it will ruin your engine in 2 months, but it is extremely dangerous, but..., but...

Nope, can't buy it.

Later
R3F

[Ernest]

No, Centex, I know the rest of the story. See, its not about believe, or think, or hope, or even wish.

[centexfisher]

I did include my disclaimer, right?....

Heck, these kinds of rumors have circulated for years. I don't know what is true and what isn't.

[Ernest]

No, I saw your disclaimer. That was not directed at you per se.

This board, not just bottom dwellers, but in general, has become not altogether unlike a game show. If folks don't know, they just guess, or make something up, or repeat something they heard even though they have no clue if its true or false. Then, they dole it out as fact, and when someone says - wait a minute, that garbage - its hey, thats just what I heard.

[centexfisher]

No, I saw your disclaimer. That was not directed at you per se.

This board, not just bottom dwellers, but in general, has become not altogether unlike a game show. If folks don't know, they just guess, or make something up, or repeat something they heard even though they have no clue if its true or false. Then, they dole it out as fact, and when someone says - wait a minute, that garbage - its hey, thats just what I heard.I know what you are saying. The "I don't care what anyone says, this is my opinion-facts be damned" attitude is rampant. That's okay, though, because there are just as many folks that make sound arguments and ask non-argumentative questions in their search for answers.

[kevin leftwich]

I will not lead people to believe I know the whole story onthe Fish carb. I do know the man was in my neighborhood for many years and operated his vehicles with them. One was the cadillac and the other vehicle was a ford pickup with a v-8 and he drove them for quite a few years.