Rod Building Questions

[Georgia Hybrid]

1. What the best epoxy to use for cork rings? Is 5 minute epoxy to fast?

2. Is there any real benefit to underwrapping blank before wrapping on guides? If I choose not to, will guide feet eat into blank surface?

3. 7 ft rod, standard baitcasting handle, 8 guides, is there a standard formula for guide spacing?

Thanks, Cap'n

[Gowge]

Here's some info on cork grips to read up on: http://www.shofftackle.com/cork-index.html

IF this is your first attempt at building a rod, you might be way ahead if you just get a finished cork grip, instead. You need some way to turn the cork rings to shape them, and if you don't have a motorized rod wrapper or a lathe, you have your work cut out for you...


Laying out and wrapping the rings is not too difficult if you take it one step at a time. IF you get impatient and don't enjoy the building part of making your own rod, then you're better off buying one off the rack - you don't save anything by building your own rod.

Start out installing the rings by getting yourself some narrow masking tape to tape down the rings. Install the reel on the reelseat (on the rod) and tape down the first ring. Run the line off the spool of the reel and tape it to the end of the rod temporarily. The line should come off the center of the spool and hit the center of the first ring as nearly as possible. IF the line rubs the bottom of the first ring before you even bend the rod, then it's way too high. Choose a lower butt ring. Once you have chosen the first ring and the line is running down the center from your casting reel, remove the reel and tape on the rest of the rings - they should be closer together near the top of the rod and spaced out wider apart down towards the first ring.

AFTER the rings are temporarily taped down in place, run the line out the rings again and tie the line off on a chair leg or something on the floor so you can pull on the rod a little bit and see if the line rubs the rod in places. Try moving the rings up or down the length of the rod so the line doesn't rub. You might need MORE rings than you thought. When you think you have the rings spaced perfectly, pull harder on the rod and see how the line runs in the rings. You may never actually pull on a fish that hard, but it helps to know if the line might rub or not...

GOOD LUCK! ;)

[reelfixr]

I am glad to see so many people interested in rod building. Factory rods just plain suck.
I will try to answer some questions for previous posts and maybe future rod builders.
First, I am not an amatuer rod builder or a master, I am somewhere in between those lines, say three quarters.
Anyway, the best advice I can give is to purchase a little book from Flex-Coat called "Step by Step Rodbuilding" for $4.95 and read it first.

Ok, so you read the book. Preformed cork is the easiest way to go, but cork rings, milled and shaped are a work of art and much more work.
Cork is fragile without epoxy and will crumble, rat's and mice love it, so you have to protect it. I have used ground up moth balls mixed with cork sealer to repel rodents. The down side to this is the smell on you hands after using the rod.
The only rodent protection you can do is store the rod upside down on a rack.
Depending on the the rod, I vary on what type of adhesive I will use. Most often my first choice is Flex-Coat rod builders epoxy.
My second choice is Gorrilia Glue, but it is a messy job and this stuff expands to three times it's size. This glue is non removable once cured. Have a can of Acetone and plenty of wipes handy.
My third choice is Devon 2part epoxy, sold at WallyWorld for about $3.00 and is as strong and flexable as Flex-Coat.
( FOLLOW DIRECTIONS ON LABEL EXACTLY!)

Cork must be preserved with sealer or it will crumble. I use U-40 cork sealer or just plain Krylon clear acrylic coating.
Neopreme rubber is longer lasting, but will oxidize with the sun and the black will rub off on your hands or anything it come into contact with. I know of no product to prevent this.
Neopreme is a trick to install on a blank. Sometime you almost have to jump in the air to even get it to slide down the blank. So I found an easier way, I use shaving cream and compressed air.
This takes a little getting used to and it is very messy.
First find the marks of where the grip is to be placed, apply the Flex-Coat, then slide the grip to where it is tight, apply shaving cream to blank over the epoxy( Barbasol works best), using a air nozzle with at least 80 psi, insert the nozzel into the grip next to the blank.
With a little pressure holding the grip in a downward position, blast with air and push the grip into place. Once it's in place, it's there and you ain't moving it.
Now it's clean up time, the shaving cream will fly all over mixed with epoxy. I know it's messy, but it works great and it's perfect.
The shaving cream drys out and you have a solid glued grip.
The reel seat is almost as tricky, but with the help of ferrels and tape, it's a snap.
On metal reels seats, I rough sand the inside of the reel seat with a file or sand paper, the blank needs to be scored and roughed up too. I use Flex-Coat rod builders epoxy on these only.
For graphite seats, either the Flex-Coat or Gorillia glue works fine.
Gorilla glue requires water to activate and is real messy.
Again I cannot stress enough about this book I bought many years ago, to which I learned so much from a few simple words, and I hated school so much way back then.
Not only is it good reading, but is an education experience worth learning. I have to take my hat off to you Mr. Bob Bruner of Schertx,Tx!
Thank you for teaching me about rodbuilding those twenty something years ago!
Welcome to Rodbuilding 101
Tight lines, Larry

[Evdog]

1. What the best epoxy to use for cork rings? Is 5 minute epoxy to fast?

2. Is there any real benefit to underwrapping blank before wrapping on guides? If I choose not to, will guide feet eat into blank surface?

3. 7 ft rod, standard baitcasting handle, 8 guides, is there a standard formula for guide spacing?

Thanks, Cap'n
You never stated the strength of the rod, (ie line test, lure weight, action) therefore will assume that it is a standard 12-15 lb test, fast action, 3/8 - 3/4 oz lure weight rod. Also, did not state if the guides were single footed or double...therefore, again will assume that they are single footed as not to decrease the action of the rod. On single footed guides, you would not need to do a underwrap on a rod of this size. Would only add weight and decrease the action. There are a few good formulas for guide spacing. Look in the book by Dale P. Clemens - The New Advanced Custom Rod Building.

Most underwrapping is left for saltwater rods that are intended for heavier use and need that add protection against the blank...especially on roller guides. A rod intended for redfish and trout would not necessitate the underwrap as the wear from friction would be minimal if the wraps are done correctly. The underwrap on that type of rod would only serve to add weight and detract from the action of the rod.

For the handle, I would use a slow curing epoxy on the cork along with a clamp. That will allow the excess epoxy to 'seep' into the gaps and pits of the cork to form a stronger bond. After the epoxy cured (24 - 36 hours) you could then turn the handle on a high speed rod wrapper or a lathe to form. Just make sure you have good high quality cork.

Hope that helps a little.

Evdog

[patfatdaddy]

Most of the time I use the five minute epoxy for glueing cork. It is plenty strong and with the fast cure you don't have to wait so long to continue working. As far as underwraps it is as much a case of personal preference as anything else. I use them sometimes because it looks good. Sometimes I use them on offshore rods to prevent the blank from being scuffed up. Most blank manufacturers have a formula for guide placement but the best thing to do is tape the guides on and put stress on the rod to see if the line is touching the blank under a load. If it is adjust the guide placement accordingly. I hope this helps. If you need anymore help or suggestions e-mail me.
patfatdaddy@earthlink.net

[reelfixr]

I will try to clear this up a little.

As for underwraps, unless you just dressing up a light rod(popping rod) or a spinning rod, underwraps are not required.
I make sure that the guide feet are sanded, smooth and in perfect align with the blank before wrapping. A nick or burr on the guides foot will dig into the blank, causing premature wear and a possible break in the rod while under stress.
I will have to agree with Gowge on his reply and that reading Dale Clemens books are a treat, as well as a learning experience. I have read both of his books. That man is a master!
The best thing I can say is to buy a ready to assemble kit from any of the rod building catalogs. I recommend Anglers Workshop out of Woodland, Wa., their ph# is :(360)225-9445, order a catalog and order a complete kit.
Practice, practice, practice!
Tight lines,
larry rabe

[ROOSTER REDCHASER]

For some great info and supplies, go to www.flexcoat.com (http://www.flexcoat.com)

Great outfit, great people, very knowledgeable. Willing to help! Talk to Rodger Sieders.
Bill

[bill]

All great advise here. The only thing I would add is this: I went out to garage sales and bought several $5.00 or less rods, took them home and practiced. Much easier to live with the wife if I make mistakes on cheap gear than waisting good rods and guides and much more money. So to try and anwser your question, don't skip or rush any step. The 5 minute epoxy may work well, I have not used it. I just think that when you are ready to make a rod for yourself or as a gift, make it something your proud of and just don't rush.

[Evdog]

All great advise here. The only thing I would add is this: I went out to garage sales and bought several $5.00 or less rods, took them home and practiced. Much easier to live with the wife if I make mistakes on cheap gear than waisting good rods and guides and much more money. So to try and anwser your question, don't skip or rush any step. The 5 minute epoxy may work well, I have not used it. I just think that when you are ready to make a rod for yourself or as a gift, make it something your proud of and just don't rush.
I did basically the same thing at the last fishing show. Bass Pro Shops had some rods they were selling for $5.00 each. And believe me...they were barely worth the 5 bucks. But, the only intention I have with them is to use them to practice on. If you practice different patterns and can make a cheap $5.00 rod look great, just think what you can do with a really nice blank. Remember, even a rod broken in half is still great to practice on.

Evdog

[Steve Buchanan]

I keep pieces of broken rods standing in a corner of my shop and use them all the time for practicing a new wrap or maybe doing a test wrap of a particular color to test the thread when the flexcoat hits it. Lots of uses for them.....

[Doubless]

Guys, I am brand new to the website/forum, but have been building rods for over 30 years. With your permission, would like to offer my method...

I do it a bit differently, with what I see as a LOT less mess. I rough the blank where the grips are going. I take a gel-type shaving cream and apply an amount about the size of the first thumb joint inside the grip. Then I slide the grip down into place. It may take a bit of pushing, but it beats the heck out of epoxy going everywhere because of the compressed air...
Been doing it this way for over 20 years, and have yet to have a problem. The grip pushes the excess epoxy off the blank, so keep a few layers of newsprint handy to catch the drip. Wipe the gel with an old t-shirt or similar, and wipe the grip with acetone. Once the epoxy sets, the grip is there permanently.