RC8 Brushless

[Earl_Sparky]

I have been driving the car for about a month. I have decided it needs a few changes. The car is a little too fast and the breaking is not consistent enough for racing. So in the next two weeks I’m going to attempt to reinstall the standard breaks back on and install a smaller motor. However if you want awesome power this is a good setup. I’m going to try a Neu 1509 motor with a little less horsepower. The consistent breaking is the biggest issue.

Specs:
MaxAmps 4000mah 6s 22.2v = My run time is about 25min.
RC-Monster Electric motor mount
RC-Monster Battery tray
Motor = NEU 1512 2.5df
RC-Monster Pinion = size - mod1 -5mm : 16 tooth hardened steel / with 46 tooth ??? still working on getting the right gear but it's good.
Speed Control= MGM TMM160183sHCS01
Home made speed controler bracket. I use alumm. angle.
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i64/earltrindle/RC8_1.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i64/earltrindle/RC8_2.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i64/earltrindle/mgm_setings1.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i64/earltrindle/mgm_setings2.jpg

[insaneracin2003]

how much did the conversion cost, roughly.? not trying to be nosey but i have an rc8 that i am thinking of converting....

[Earl_Sparky]

Here is the exact list of the hardware I used.



--------------------------

Product ID: RCMNEUcover

Product Name: Neu Rear endbell cover

Quantity: 1

Unit Price: $7.50

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Product ID: RCMfrontmotorcover

Product Name: Front Motor Cover -Lehner/Neu

Quantity: 1

Unit Price: $12.00

--------------------------

Product ID: RCMRC8mount

Product Name: Associated RC8 electric motor mount

Quantity: 1

Unit Price: $50.00

> > > rc8 mount color : silver/natural

--------------------------

Product ID: RCMFPbatterytray

Product Name: Battery Tray Kit - Flight Power/Poly Quest 5000 size

Quantity: 1

Unit Price: $40.00

--------------------------

Product ID: mgmcc02

Product Name: MGM Connection Cable 2

Quantity: 1

Unit Price: $11.00

--------------------------

Product ID: MGMusb

Product Name: MGM usbCom+

Quantity: 1

Unit Price: $32.00

--------------------------

Product ID: NEU_1512_2.5df

Product Name: Neu 1512 2.5d/f Sensorless Brushless Motor

Quantity: 1

Unit Price: $240.00

--------------------------

Product ID: TMM160183sHCS01

Product Name: MGM Compro 160 amp, 18 cell brushless car controller

Quantity: 1

Unit Price: $275.00

--------------------------

Product ID: 5mmmod1pinion

Product Name: 5mm bore, mod1 pinion

Quantity: 1

Unit Price: $12.00

> > > pinion size - mod1 -5mm : 15 tooth hardened steel (+$2.00)

--------------------------

Product ID: BK9000325

Product Name: High Amp. Gold plug 5.5 mm, 150 Amp

Quantity: 3

Unit Price: $1.99

> > > 5.5mm gold plug : male

--------------------------

Product ID: BK9000325

Product Name: High Amp. Gold plug 5.5 mm, 150 Amp

Quantity: 3

Unit Price: $1.99

> > > 5.5mm gold plug : female

--------------------------

Total hardware= $685.47



MaxAmps 4000mah 6s 22.2v = $229.99

You might try the MaxAmps 3000mah 6s 22.2v = $164.99

I think the lighter weight battery may help the car weight.

I would just make sure you stay with the 22.2 volt system. It runs so much cooler than the lower volt systems. You would also need a 22.2 volt battery charger. The 22.2 volt batteries charge really fast, about 30min. Three is the most you would ever need. I would recommend the NEW Hyperion EOS0610i 6S 10A Balance Charger. It’s about $160.00

[Courtney Vaughan]

could you use (2) 3S batteries in parellel on each side of the car for balance purposes and cost purposes? I think you can get 3S stick packs in 4000MAH for like $50-60 each.....I THINK

[Earl_Sparky]

Yes, you could use (2) 3S batteries and have a 22.2 volt system. Some of the conversion kits out are setup for two batteries. One battery mounted on each side. The RC Monster conversion kit is designed for one battery. It’s a little more cost, but you don’t have to keep track of so many batteries and charge two at a time. It also adds a little weight to the car with two battery trays. Also when you do battery changes in the middle of a race, it is quicker to change just one battery instead of two.

[Earl_Sparky]

Here is a photo of the front brakes that I installed.
I used a Futaba S3155 Digital HS Slim Servo.
So far it's working great.You must have brake mixing on your radio.
I would have installed the rear also, but the brake disk and the motor hit each other. The ESC brakes both front and rear. I set the ESC to light breaking. Then you can put more braking on the front with the servo mechanical brake. That gives you braking bias front vs. back.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i64/earltrindle/rc8_br.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i64/earltrindle/rc8_br2.jpg

[Courtney Vaughan]

looks sweet as usual Earl.......now you've got your braking issue solved! how about that inconsistent throttle issue? Did you try using the EXP setting on your throttle curve on your radio or the ESC software yet?

[Earl_Sparky]

Yes, the throttle issue was in the reaction time. I fix the ESC setting for faster acceleration. I’m also going back to 5S 18.5 volts. I think this will be the right mix of speed vs. heat in the electrical system. The 22.2 volts is just too fast with the current motor I have. I think I should have bought a smaller one. Plus it will not cost me anything. I’m just going to rebuild my current 6S battery packs to 5S.

[Courtney Vaughan]

you can't just turn the EPA down on your radio to take out some of the top speed?

[Earl_Sparky]

I will play with that and see how it works. I would also like to lose a little weight. That was some of the thought in going to 5S.

[Courtney Vaughan]

it should do exactly the same thing as dropping down to a 5S, but without increasing the current draw......if you've got the throttle input calibrated on the ESC with the EPA maxed out on the throttle channel on the radio, all it should do is limit the full throttle signal so that the only portion of your throttle curve that is affected is max trigger pull......you need to stay away from that anyway for now :)

you interested in heading up to Mike's this Saturday for some test/tune with me? I've got a couple of good set-up guides printed out and they might be of help to you as well.

[Earl_Sparky]

Sure, what time?

[Courtney Vaughan]

I will be there at 10AM

[Earl_Sparky]

CV you’re a genius! I don’t know why I didn’t try that earlier. I’m not going to change a thing on my car now. I just need to finish fine tuning my radio. The EPA setting made a huge difference. I kept trying to fix it through the ESC.

See ya Saturday.

[Courtney Vaughan]

MAN, have you been running your car with a maxed out EPA?!?!?!?!? I also use that setting to give myself more/less braking as well. you'll probably find that you'll have a lot more traction now as well because it won't be pouring on the power so heavily now.

dude, if I max mine out on my 4wd, it'll pretty much pop wheelies down the straight! waaaaayyyyy outa control!

and yes, I am a genius! and for that suggestion, I get to drive your car! :)

seriously though, glad you figured it out.....I learned that one the hard way too when I was racing 1/18 cars at HIRCR.....with a maxed out EPA, if you hit the throttle too hard, it'd basically flip out from under itself!

BTW, I've got $400 and my brand new backup buggy stashed aside for the conversion. When I can find an ESC/motor/battery combo for under $400 (aside from a mamba max and a fieago motor), I'm jumping on board the BL wagon!

[nik77356]

ive got my backup buggy stashed away for parts. haha. if i can find a good deal on the rite stuff, i just mite jump on the BL bandwagon too!!!

[Courtney Vaughan]

My only concern at this point is running a 30 minute main......or even 20 minute mains.

for 20 minute mains, stopping once for a battery change compared to 4 times for refueling should equal out, but given the current cost of Lipo's, that's most likely 200-300 worth of batteries X 2 !!!!

Same goes for a 30 minute main.....but even higher cost batteries!

Truth be told, the cost of the ESC/Motor/Conversion parts isn't what's holding me back....it's the cost of having to basically get TWO high dollar chargers plus the cost of TWO sets of batteries. We aren't all rich like Earl! :)

[Courtney Vaughan]

Lipo prices have basically dropped to about 1/2 of what they were about 1.5-2 years ago, and when they do that again, it'll be more feasible for most people.

IMO, that's what's keeping the major manufactures from creating production quality electric 1/8 RTR's......the average person who spends $500-700 on a good RTR can easily afford a $30 bottle of fuel, but can they afford another $500-700 worth of batteries?

Don't get me wrong, I'll do it in a heartbeat if I have the money!

[Earl_Sparky]

I'm not rich, I just blew my Christmas bonus! But I don't have to buy any Nitro.
$550 RC8
$700 Conversion Kit
$660 3 Batteries
$1910 Total Cost

I'm just lucky my calculations came out right and I don't have to buy any thing else.

[Courtney Vaughan]

have you done a solid run time test under race conditions? meaning, have you run lap after lap until the battery starts to go? run time? did you have 6000 or an 8000MAH battery?

[Earl_Sparky]

When I raced in the 5min races, my battery would only except 900 to 1000 mah charges. I was using a 4000mah 6s 22.2 volt Maxamp batteries. When practicing I can get 20min every time. You don't need a very hi mah rating when you go with a higher volt to have the same power with less heat.

[Courtney Vaughan]

so (1) 8000MAH for the qualifiers and (1) 8000MAH for the mains would do it......like I said though....$600 worth of batteries! Ouch......

[Earl_Sparky]

Well, you must consider the weight and size. the biggest 6S I could fit under the body of the RC8 was the 4000mah. I had my car nearly built before I selected my batteries. I knew that I was going to use 22.2 volt batteries. I took clay and made a block the same weight as the batteries. Then I tried to see if the balanced and weight of my car was correct. This also helped me place my ESC. There is a lot more to it then what meets the eye.

[Courtney Vaughan]

so, if I wanted to do a battery on each side, then (2) of these would work the same as what you have?

http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_info.php/cPath/1_221_224/products_id/19354

[Earl_Sparky]

Yes, that is the same. These two batteries are just a tad heaver than what I used. You should stay with a battery that can produce 80amps continuous @22.2volts for the motor I used. Or what ever amps the motor you chose uses. You really need to total all the weight of all the electrical items and check it against the weight of your gas setup. It is kinda time consuming, but it will save you from buying a setup that is too heavy. My setup is equl to a full tank of gas. I wish it was just a little lighter, but I don't think I will change anything. My motor "NEU 1512 2.5df" is rated for 1.6HP continuous use like the gas cars. = to 54 continous amps @22.2volts. it can surge to 112amps for 30seconds. You could use 60amps continuous @22.2volt batteries, but I'm not sure how they would hold up.

[Earl_Sparky]

Actually, I recalculated it tacking in to account efficiency of 87% and its 1.39Hp continuous. The amps are the same @ 54amps @ 22.2 volts.

[cjtamu]

Earl, you may have done it already, but when you program your speedo be sure the EPA on your radio is set all the way to the max before programming. It gives you maximum throw from neutral to WOT and that goes a long way towards eliminating the punchiness in BL motors. Then adjust EPA back downward the way CV said if you need to. I won't make Mike's today, the Littlest Princess is sick and Lajuan is at the store. Might swing up there tomorrow though.

[nik77356]

Chris, you should definitely come up there tomorrow!! I'm gonna be there so i can get some practice in for the Nitro Invitational coming up in a couple of weeks.

[cjtamu]

Won't make it. Littlest Princess missed her tennis lesson Wed b/c of weather and yesterday b/c of sickness and she's itching to hit some. That's gotta come first. Putting together a parts list for the B44, parts are hard to get right now. Great Planes doesn't have 1/2 of it in stock.

[GoFaster]

Chris, all you have to do is send me your list.

[Earl_Sparky]

Ok, here are my final thoughts after 6 weeks of testing. I probably will not do anymore updates on this thread. I might post a video if I can get it together.

The batteries are the right size and weight for my car “4000mah 6S 22.2 volts”. I had one Maxamps battery fail. It got damaged from not having a full bumper plate on the front side of the battery when a car endos. Make sure you completely support your batteries. Maxamps batteries are not the toughest. I plan on continuing using these batteries. The battery temp was 98F after a 20 to 25 min run

The MGM controller is adequate. It’s not the best performing controller, but right now there is no other that meets the specifications for this application. The breaking and neutral zone are inconsistent and a little hard to control. It is not a professional level controller. It’s a good sportsman class controller. I will be very competitive with it. I’m still looking for a better controlling ESC or a software patch for this one. The ESC temp was 140F after a 20 to 25min run.

The Neu motor is very good. Probably the best part of the conversion. At first I thought it was too fast. It is to fast until you change your throttle EPA “End Point Adjuster” down to around 80%. I would not use a smaller motor because this one heats up after 25min of run time. It’s very fast for a short time and will run at 1.39hp continuous use. If you start running longer the 30min you might run into heating problems with this motor. It’s a great motor and I will continue using this motor. My gearing end up at 15/46. The motor “Neu 1512 2.5df” temp was 165F after 20 to 25min run.

The RC Monster conversion kit was very good. The servo tray took a little grinding to make it fit. You will need a Dremel for this project, especially for making the ESC and brake mounts.

Final word. This type of project is not for the faint of heart. It takes a lot of work.
It just might be easer to run Nitro. In the future there will be more complete kits. This is probably worth waiting for if you are not into doing a big expensive project. Now that it is done, I’m really going to enjoy it. It’s been a fun experience for me and I’m happy with the results.

[Earl_Sparky]

RC8 Brushless Video!

Sorry, the lighting was not good.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=B04N35U_ZOc (http://youtube.com/watch?v=B04N35U_ZOc)