4 stroke motors vs. 2 stroke motors

[Naterator]

posted this on another board, but thought i'd try the new boating forum here too...lets here it!!!

I’m sure this question will incite a number of heated discussions......I’m about to buy a new, well-known name brand, 20 ft tunnel hull w/ jack plate, and am thinking a 150hp is appropriate. I will probably use the boat 2-3 times per month on average, with intermittent periods of 3-4 days in a row a few times a year. Average trips are lengthy, usually the best part of a day, or all day. I am trying to decide on a 2-stroke vs. 4-stroke motor. I am somewhat mechanically inclined, and know cars pretty well, but know nothing about boat motors, and don’t envision myself doing more maintenance work than changing a prop occasionally. I am willing to pay a reasonable premium for reliability. Are the 4-strokes worth the premium? What kind of price premium should i expect? Pros and cons? Thanks for any help.....Nate

[HappyCamper]

Go 4 stroke vs. 2 stroke, imo. I am in the market for a new boat and motor also. I will be buying a 4 stroke. They are more quiet, and more efficient on fuel. I believe they can be about 30% more efficient on average. You may want to check out the Suzuki 140 4 stroke. It is very well priced at msrp 11,491.00. Also comes with a 6 year warranty. Hard to beat.

Ken

[Argo]

The four strokes are about the same price these days if not sometimes cheaper. You will notice that almost all shallowsports these days come off the line with the zuki motors(four strokes) There are many fourstrokes out there on the shallow running boats that seem to like them. I want them to extend my range and be quite AND not have to worry about my VRO going out and blowing my engine again. There are pros and cons to both but the simplicity of the fourstroke(oil injection wise) is what put me onto them. Price around and find a good deal. They are out there.

[TOOEXTREME]

I am running a Honda 225HP outboard and I love the motor. I purchased the motor in Marble Falls Tx. I live in Corpus Christi Tx. and saved a bunch of $$$ buying it from Tropical Marine in Marble Falls. I called around and that was the best deal I could get so I drove the miles and save $$$. Ask for Rick if your are interested in a Honda motor. This is not an endorsement of their business the just treated me right. I would post a pic of my boat if I knew how. When I try to post a pic it says it has to many MB's or something.

[flieman]

I have a pair of Yamaha 225 4 strokes and cannot say enough good things about them. I have owned 23 boats and never had a four stroke and do not think I will ever go back. They are quite beyond belief, no oil costs, and are much smoother running. My last boat had a pair of 130 Yammies and the oil was a big expense at the end of the day.

Flieman

[gds]

You might want to look at the Evinrude E-Tecs, the fuel consumption is as good or better as the four strokes, seven year warranty, no maintenance for three years and you can run them wide open right out of the box, no break in. I saw one of the 225's last week at the boat ramp and you could not hear it run at idle, I didn't get to hear it run out on the water but would assume that it was very quiet.

[Naterator]

Thanks for all the feedback - please post more! I know I can't be the only one wondering about this....

well, it seems that opinions are mixed, based on feedback on this and the other board. The boat i am leaning towards is a shallowsport. Everyone talks about the hole shot advantage on the 2 strokes, and maybe i'm just ignorant, but besides accelerating quicker = more fun, i don't see the real advantage to a great hole shot in practical terms.....If I can get up on plane in a foot of water with a 4 stroke, that is good enough....it doesn't bother me if it takes a little more time to do it....

My main concern is reliability and maintenance, and from the feedback i've gotten so far, it doesn't seem that there is a real advantage either way.....

also - Suzuki 4 strokes - i've been wondering about these as well - you don't see many suzukis...is there a reason why?

[FishEyes]

You might want to look at the Evinrude E-Tecs, the fuel consumption is as good or better as the four strokes, seven year warranty, no maintenance for three years and you can run them wide open right out of the box, no break in. I saw one of the 225's last week at the boat ramp and you could not hear it run at idle, I didn't get to hear it run out on the water but would assume that it was very quiet.Fuel consumption is actually better.......quite a bit better than 4 strokes. Something else to consider that I haven't seen mentioned here is the weight difference. Four-strokes are/have been a lot heavier. More weight equals less mpg.

MYTH: Four-stroke outboards are the lowest maintenance outboards.
FACT: Exactly the opposite is true. Unlike other clean technologies, E-TEC engines require no scheduled dealer maintenance for three years of recreational use. There are no valves to adjust, no oil or filters to change. Plus, you don't have to take an E-TEC to your dealer to prepare it for off-season storage. It's so simple, you can do it yourself right in your driveway. Also, failing to follow the detailed maintenance schedule from a four-stroke manufacturer can void the engine's warranty.


http://www.evinrude.com/en-US/

[HappyCamper]

"also - Suzuki 4 strokes - i've been wondering about these as well - you don't see many suzukis...is there a reason why?"


Seems like I see more and more Suzukis all the time. I have had a Suzuki 225hp 2 stroke for the last 3 years and have had no trouble at all. I am going to sell that boat and motor to buy a new boat and motor. Will have no problem replacing it with another Suzuki. I will be buying a 4 stroke with the new boat. I am looking at Suzuki,Yamaha or Honda for the next boat.

Ken

[BenS]

Earlier this year, I bought my "retirement boat". I've had a lot of boats over the years and researched this one a lot (including test drives and rides with friends with new boats) before pulling the trigger. I went with the 225 4 stroke Yamaha, and so far it's been impressive. I bought the service manual fom Yamaha and with normal mechanical knowledge just about all of the service is something that you can do yourself. The direct injection 2 strokes are also impressive and most are proving to be trouble free with the exception of some problems with the 250 and 300 Yamahas. The yammie 4 stroke will not give you the holeshot of the 2 strokes, but I have enough gray in my beard to make that a non-issue. The mid range exceleration is very good. It is smooth ,quiet and stingy on gas. Just my opinion, but I can't see ever going back to a 2 stroke.

[loom]

2-stroke is a superior design for an outboard motor. Less parts, less weight... the list goes on. the only reason there are more and more 4-strokes these days is a case of our loosing more and more of our freedoms to the EPA excuse. The government would rather pick on the little guy. I guess when fishing becomes a rich mans sport(which it already almost is) everyone will be happy. 10,000 for an outboard???? The first new car I bought was 10,300, and it had 6 cylinders, ac, am/fm cassette, etc.... OK enough of my rant................

[Catn' Around]

actually the yamaha 150 4 stroke is lighter than a two stroke 150 and the 115 is only 25 lbs more. I ended up going eith the 4 stroke and will let you know what I think about it when I get to run it.

Fuel consumption is actually better.......quite a bit better than 4 strokes. Something else to consider that I haven't seen mentioned here is the weight difference. Four-strokes are/have been a lot heavier. More weight equals less mpg.


http://www.evinrude.com/en-US/

[CHARLIE]

Well

four strokes are heavier most always cost more. For the amount you pay extra for a 4 stroke you can buy a lot of gas for the 2 stroke. But its all in what you think you will be happy with. Thats why they make Fords and Chevys.

Charlie

[kenny]

At the 90 hp.level 4-strokes are all about 100#s heavier than the 2-strokes. On a small skinny water boat that is significant.

[Jerry-rigged]

You really need to break this comparison into 3 groups - 4 stroke, Direct Inject 2-strokes, and non-DI 2-strokes.



Non-DI (carb'ed or EFI) 2-s are noisy, smoky, and use more gas. On the plus side, they are usually lighter, and have good reliability.



DI 2-S - Very quiet, almost no smoke at idle, gas mileage varies from brand to brand. New designs like the E-tech usually give the best mileage. Older designs (like Optimax) are as heavy as newer 4-strokes. DI is kind a newer technology, and ALL mfgers have had growing pains. Some DI blocks (like the 300 HPDI or the 175 Fict) are bombs, and keel over at about 20 hours. Same tech on a diffrent block seems good though, go figure. Most DI issued with most blocks have been worked out - make sure your block has had the Mfg. updates.



4-strokes - Quietest at idle - noise about the same as DI when running at speed. Good gas mileage. good reliability. Same basic Technology as car engines, so not many unproven ideas.



Jerry

[Slimshady]

actually the yamaha 150 4 stroke is lighter than a two stroke 150 and the 115 is only 25 lbs more. I ended up going eith the 4 stroke and will let you know what I think about it when I get to run it.
Yamaha shows the Vmax150 @ 418# and the HPDI150 @ 426# while the 4-stroke weighs 466#. A difference between 48-40#'s. Not much of a difference, but there is a difference if Yamaha's specs are correct. I think I would miss the good ol' smell of 2-stroke fumes in the morning? Most dealers will agree, 2-stroke is a thing of the past.

[ssb]

My Way to look at it today:
5 generations of motors:

1. 4 Stroke : Yama makes a lot of Mercury, Suzuki makes Johnson,
Others stand on own pretty sure.

Two Cycle:
2. Carb - Johnson and some others
3. EFI - Electronic Fuel Injection (Probably not made any more)
4. DFI - Direct Fuel Injection (Merc Optimax, Yama Hpdi, Evinrude Ram and
others) (Merc Merado is DFI if not misstaken)
5. TEC (Highest Technology yet to hang) - Evinrude ETEC up to 250HP...

Now just wait to near future --- Industry trend is ....
HP's will be getting bigger and much bigger..
and Technology better
Offshore and inshore hulls demanding it!!!!!!!

FYI - There is no 4 stroke 30 % better than DFI or ETEC in any rating category. Both are about even depending on your way of looking at them!!!!!!!!!!

[fishsmart]

You will have to run a lot of engine hours for the 4 stroke and 2 stroke DI engines to pay for the difference in initial cost with fuel savings. To save $800-1000/yr on fuel and oil you will need a lot of runtime. I have not yet seen any engine pricing differential costs that will result in a 3 year payback for the 100-150 hr per year user if you throw out the warranty give aways.

If you just want to get one for other reasons, then do it.

Charles

[Mr. Breeze]

I just saw a 30 minute show on PBS about the E-Tec from Evinrude. If all they say is true, this is one good motor. It put the Yami 4 Stroke in the dirt. Very impressive and with a 7 year warranty, might be "the" motor to have right now.

[gatorbait]

Mine is a '05 carbed 150 Yamaha and Ill say this. It is much quieter than the 60hp evinrude(1998) I had. I was amazed at how quiet it was. I looked hard at a 4 stroke 150 but i couldnt justify the large price difference. As said above these motors are tried and true and is a well tested design. I dont remember the exact number but it was around 3k to go from a 2 stroke to a four. Even as much as i run that is a lot of gas and oil. I decided for my money Ill stick with the proven product. Plus when I picked mine up I was told the four stroke Yamaha's were back ordered and he couldnt get one till late April early May. I got mine right away. Same with the Etec's, they are selling as fast as they can make em. As far as thing of the past, well, I had more than one dealer at the boat show tell me they'd pick the 2 stroke over the four stroke. And they had money to gain by selling the 4 stroker. Its all in what you are happy with. Im happy with mine and that is all that matters to me I guess. Good luck.

Zac

[locochon]

it depends on what kind of shallowsport your running. i have a brand new 15' shallowsport and push it with a 2 stroke 90 hp yamaha and am more than happy with it. now if your going for the 20' with no sides then a yamaha trp is the way to go. whats the point of getting a boat like that and not taking advantage of its amazing 6 - 8 inch hole shot with a 150 trp. i guess it just depends on what kind of fishing or boating u do. and if your going with a smaller size engine i can run my 90 all over port mansfield all day and still come back with about 3/4 tank.